Americans don't know what plug in hybrids are, 2021 Ford Bronco Package Pricing & more auto news

"LJ909" (lj909) 08/27/2020 at 11:29 • Filed to: Plug-In Hybrid, Dodge Durango Hellcat, 2021 Ford Bronco pricing, Lincoln, Cadillac, auto news

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Americans aren’ t just not familiar with plug in hybrids, they don’ t know about them : At least according to !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . They paint a picture of an American consumer populace that is unfamiliar with plug in’s. From the article: “ PHEVs remain a tough thing to market here in the U.S. People don’t understand what a plug-in hybrid is,” Ed Kim, a veteran industry expert and vice president at AutoPacific, told ABC News. “It’s incumbent on automakers to explain what the benefits are to consumers and overcome this insurmountable marketing challenge,” he said.” Plug in hybrids account for just 0.9% of the market the first quarter of this year. Its up to automakers to get people familiar. One analyst says that due to plug in’s being a middle compromise, that could explain why they aren’ t working because according to him (from the article):”PHEVs inhabit a barren middle in consumers’ consciousness. It’s a halfway solution and consumers typically haven’t liked middle of the road solutions.” With 41 new plug in models planned to be introduced between now and next year, automakers better get their act together, or waste money and time on products consumers don’ t want.

Ford is getting pricing on Bronco options from consumer inputs : Per !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , Ford has been sending customers who have placed a reservation on a Bronco “ an advance ordering survey to help us understand consumer demand for certain features on the new Bronco. ” It will remain to be seen whether or not they actually take the customer responses and apply them. But from what we can gather, the Bronco will have some customization , but get pricey fast, just like the Wrangler. Brief TL;DR snippets from the article:

Swapping the seven-speed manual for the 10-speed automatic with the 2.3-liter EcoBoost four-cylinder costs $1,600. Stepping up to the 2.7-liter EcoBoost, which is paired with the automatic, costs $3,500 on the Base, Big Bend, Black Diamond, and Badlands trims.

The Outer Banks trim (between Black Diamond and Badlands) looks to start with the automatic, so it charges $1,600 to get the 2.7-liter.

The off road focused Sasquatch package costs $5k on the Base, Big Bend & Outer Banks Trim. Its $2500 on the Badlands trim. From the article: “ One poster who chose the Black Diamond trim was presented with a $4,500 price for the Sasquatch kit .”

Head over to the article to see more pricing. But you can pretty much gather that it wont be uncommon to see $50-$60k+ Bronco’s. Speaking of expensive….

The 2021 Dodge Durango Hellcat starts at $81,000 : $80,995 to be exact. Gotta use that psychological pricing with the 99’s at the end to make it seem cheaper. Via !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , they also report that Dodge released pricing for the rest of the Durago line up as well. The base SXT starts at $31,765 and the R/T at $45,305. That means there’ s a whopping $50k price difference between the base SXT and the Hellcat for 417 more horses and $35,690 between the lowly Hemi powered R/T and the Hellcat for 350 more horses. Insane.

Luxury buyers aren’ t interested in Cadillac or Lincoln : In an article that should surprise no one, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! reports that luxury car buyers have no interest in America’s only 2 luxury marques. From the article: “ Kelley Blue Book’s Brand Watch Report for the second quarter of 2020 included results for what it calls brand “consideration.” Buyers considered buying BMW’ s ahead of other luxury brands, with 24% of shoppers preferring it in the survey. It was followed by Audi (owned by Volkswagen) at 21%, Lexus (the luxury brand of Toyota) at 18%, Tesla at 16%, Mercedes at 15% and Acura (Honda) at 12%, the same as Cadillac. Lincoln posted a figure of only 7%. ” That’ s low. Really low.

They pa int a picture of 2 brands that are still bought by older buyers with small model lines and none of the 12 considerations that luxury buyers look for when shopping (If you’re wondering what those 12 considerations are, they are durability, safety, driver comfort, driving performance, technology, interior layout, reputation, affordability, exterior styling, fuel efficiency, prestige/sophistication and ruggedness). Meanwhile their competitors have younger buyers, bigger model lines and tech that people want in their models. One of the main problems with both Lincoln and Cadillac is the fact that they are part of bigger corporations and its reflected in everything they do. While other luxury brands are indie, or function as if they are autonomous even though they are part of bigger corporations. But that’ s a discussion for another time...

E90M3 > LJ909 08/27/2020 at 11:55

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Why would I buy a Cadillac or a Lincoln? They cost as much as a rival from Europe, and I can’t get away my perception of seas of plastic and poor quality. My parents had an 01 Olds Silhouette and an 02 Regal when I was driving age . They were awful.

Tripper > LJ909 08/27/2020 at 11:58

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Ok American here. I am aware that things called “plug in hybrids” exist, but I’m on team “why?”. Partially because I don’t know how they work, and partially because my excitement for 99% of new cars died circa 2010.

Do you have to plug it in?
Does the gas engine charge the battery too?
Assuming better MPG than a standard hybrid?  

Taylor Martin > LJ909 08/27/2020 at 11:59

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So what I’m hearing is that Cadillac and Lincoln will one day face the same fate Pontiac and Mercury did. Not shocking, since America is good for big cars, but can’t comprehend making them drivable and comfortable.

Speaking of big cars, sweet Jesus the price on that D urango is high. I don’t remember the base Durango being all that good. It was big, as per American standards, but it didn’t have much else going for it. Interesting that they’re slapping a bigger engine into is and sending it out for the price of a nice house.

I don’t understand the appeal of that expensive a car, but there are lots of people who do.

BigBlock440 > Tripper 08/27/2020 at 12:07

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They’re like electric cars, but you’re not stuck if you run out of extension cord.

facw > Tripper 08/27/2020 at 12:10

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Basically all it is a hybrid where you can also charge the battery with a plug instead of just with the gas engine. This is awesome in the sense that if your hybrid has a 20 mile battery only range, and your commute is 10 miles each way, you can conceivably do the whole thing using only grid power. B asically you have an electric for commuting and local errands, but without the range concerns of a pure electric (as you might imagine the example above is a little bit of a simplification) . If you exceed your battery range, then it functions just like a normal hybrid.

To answer your questions:

Do you have to plug it in?

No, if you don’t, it will work just like a normal hybrid.

Does the gas engine charge the battery too?

Yes, the engine will charge it as needed just like a normal hybrid

Assuming better MPG than a standard hybrid?

Yes. As noted above, if you stay within your electric range, it’s possible to not use any gas. And then if you drive further without charging , mileage will decrease to be basically that of a normal hybrid.

LJ909 > E90M3 08/27/2020 at 12:12

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Cadillac has been half assing it for awhile now. I give credit only to Lincoln. They seem to be actually trying with the Navigator and Aviator .

E90M3 > LJ909 08/27/2020 at 12:14

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That’s fair. With Lincoln, I don’t see a reason to get one over just a regular Ford, I don’t feel the brand has that much prestige. Just give me an Explorer and call it a day. 

LJ909 > Taylor Martin 08/27/2020 at 12:14

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I wouldn’t be surprised if Lincoln and Cadillac went the way of Mercury. I’d expect to see Cadillac go before Lincoln though. And that would be the end of American luxury sadly.

The price on the Durango is insane. I couldn’t see myself paying that. I think Dodge is aware most people won’t either which is why they limited the production numbers. 

Milky > Tripper 08/27/2020 at 12:16

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I’ll answer the why.

Chinese law stipulates that EVs, FCVs, and PHEVs with EV driving range of 50km and higher are assigned a fuel consumption value of zero, while vehicles with poor fuel economy are subjected to fuel consumption penalty multipliers.

If you can go over 31 miles on a charge you don’ t get penalized.

LJ909 > E90M3 08/27/2020 at 12:16

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That’s the part where they need to try harder. They are still too close to the Ford’s they are based on to command any kind of price premium. Ford doesn’t help matters because they keep making Platinum trims of their vehicles and they reach almost Lincoln like prices. Especially on the Edge and Expedition. It’s like they want to kill off Lincoln sometimes.

E90M3 > LJ909 08/27/2020 at 12:18

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Completely agree.

Taylor Martin > LJ909 08/27/2020 at 12:24

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Is it odd that the moment I read “went the way of Mercury” a mental image of cars flying to Mercury popped into my mind?

I r ecreated in Photoshop, for your viewing pleasure.

Chariotoflove > E90M3 08/27/2020 at 12:27

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See, everything I read about actual tests and reviews is that’s not the case, but perceptions like that are so hard to counter. Also, I would be surprised if you actually paid as much at the dealer. 

Tripper > facw 08/27/2020 at 12:39

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Hmm seems like a super good deal for a rational consumer so no one here haha

E90M3 > Chariotoflove 08/27/2020 at 12:43

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They are, and it’s also one I’ve developed myself. That said, the rental cars I’ve liked most have been Chevys.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > LJ909 08/27/2020 at 13:01

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plu gin hybrid: because consumers are dumb and salesmen dont’ care, which is odd, with the higher transaction price one would think it would make their numbers look better. 

Textured Soy Protein > E90M3 08/27/2020 at 13:02

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Lincoln has recently stepped up their game where the interiors are finally a genuine upgrade over the equivalent Ford. There are some really expensive uplevel trims of Ford models now, but in spite of all their attempts to present a “premium” interior, a certain degree of underlying crappiness shines through. 

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > Tripper 08/27/2020 at 13:20

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The other advantage that is just now starting to materialize in p lug-in hybrids vs regular hybrids is more power. The Hyundai Ioniq for example is 139 hp in hybrid form but 159 hp in plug-in form. The Rav4 really shows this with 212 hp in hybrid but over 300 hp in plug-in.

subexpression > LJ909 08/27/2020 at 13:23

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I always thought the things we call regular hybrids were the shitty in-between product, and plug-in hybrids we re closer to being a useful solution . And I say that as somebody who doesn’t even have a place to plug a car in (apartment dweller ) .

I wonder if plug-in hybrids would be doing better in the US i f so many people hadn’t spent years yelling that the original Prius wa s the only answer and that anybody who questioned it must be a stupid anti-environment pawn of big oil who might enjoy torturing small animals in the basement .

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > Tripper 08/27/2020 at 13:29

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This.

Plus, gas is still fuckit cheap, so there’s still not the “NEED” for them in the US*.

.

.

.

*yet

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > LJ909 08/27/2020 at 13:32

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We wanted a plug in hybrid when we bought my wife’s car, but they were rare and only made by a few manufacturers at the time, so we ended up with just a hybrid. Plug in is better for the kind of use we make of cars where the majority of trips should be within electric range, while still able to do longer trips without having to think about how we’ll charge it. My wife has range anxiety about doing longer road trips that we used to do every couple weeks in the summer, which is why electric was off the table (aside from price and limited selection).

The Durango is made by FCA, so this is a crack pipe price, but it’s not that far from the price of similar vehicles from other manufacturers. My wife’s car had an MSRP of something like $56k with the options it has, and it’s just a lowly Highlander. Cars are ridiculously expensive these days relative to incomes.

The problem with these domestic luxury brands is that they don’t say anything, except, perhaps, that you’re old . You buy a BMW to say something about yourself, even if it’s no more expensive than many middle class cosplay vehicles from mainstream brands. Ford’s best move would be to absorb Lincoln, allowing upmarket interiors and drivetrains to be placed in Ford-branded vehicles. With GM it would be harder, since they still have an ecosystem of brands, but they should at least absorb Buick into Chevy. Cadillac will probably ultimately go that way, but it would take more time and effort to do it.

Chariotoflove > E90M3 08/27/2020 at 13:34

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This thread is instructive. In your last post, we are talking about modern Cadillacs, and you referenced almost 20 year old Buick and Oldsmobile models. Then in this post, you mention Chevy. If Cadillac gets lumped in with other GM cars, especially old ones, instead of being perceived separately, then it’s game over for them before a model even hits the showroom, no matter what they build.  I don’t know how to counter that. For a substantial number of luxury buyers, they probably can’t. 

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > LJ909 08/27/2020 at 13:40

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I still think they should just roll Lincoln into Ford. Just use the interiors , paint , light assemblies, and engines from Lincoln as options on the higher trims. They could then roll the design teams together and bump the Ford designs without eating into Lincoln sales. Just go all out on stealth luxury by selling cars with blue ovals that could compete with luxury cars...

LJ909 > subexpression 08/27/2020 at 14:00

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You’d think that plug ins would be doing better because they are pretty much a compromise between a full on ev an an ice engine. It makes no sense. 

WilliamsSW > LJ909 08/27/2020 at 14:12

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Keep in mind that the Escalade and Navigator are still money makers.  If it weren't for those two, Cadillac and Lincoln would have been gone years ago.  

WilliamsSW > E90M3 08/27/2020 at 14:15

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I’ve driven an Aviator. Design and driving dynamics wise, Lincoln killed it. I would absolutely rather drive an Aviator over a Merc or BMW tank. Not even close.

However, it sounds like there are build quality issues thanks to the dunbasses at Ford rushing it (and the 'Sploder) to market. Which is a damn shame.    

E90M3 > Chariotoflove 08/27/2020 at 14:37

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I mean you’re not wrong, the problem is their base products weren’t very good, why would I expect luxury cars to be better. I lump everything together because so many of their cars share underpinnings, whether that’s valid or not anymore, it doesn’t matter because its my perception. I mentioned the rental Chevys because they’re starting to change my perception. Would I spend money on a GM product now? Probably not, but that’s an improvement from my absolute no a decade ago.